Sunday, June 19, 2005

GAVIN RUMNEY SOLVES THE QUESTION: WHO IS RIGHT? EDWARD FUDGE OR FELIX TAYLOR?


Gavin Rumney, of Ambassador Watch fame added his valuable two cents in a post on JLF that I created over a year and a half ago dealing with the eternal destiny of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Edward Fudge, author of the Fire That Consumes, argued in his daily e-mail called gracemail that Jehovah's Witnesses can be saved. I argued that it cannot be so with my reasoning that scripture makes clear in no uncertain terms that there is NO salvation in a false god and Jesus made it clear in the book of John, saying to the Pharisees, "If you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins!" (JW's stridently oppose Jesus Christ's deity) Edward Fudge responded to my objection that the Pharisee's attitude was a refusal to welcome and embrace Jesus as the Son of God, not an improper metaphysical explanation of His being. Can these views be reconciled? Here's what Gavin Rumney tried to put together:


One variety of legalism teaches that humans can be saved by good works. Another teaches that humans can be saved by good words. Just believe the RIGHT PROPOSITION and thou shalt be saved. God is a trinity, Blood Atonement, Sacred Tradition, The Secret Rapture...
What bumptious nonsense!
While I'd hardly call the JW movement Christian, there are surely Christians among its numbers, just as there were Christians in our midst during even the darkest days of Herb's myopic Evil Empire.
At the end of the day nobody is "saved" by the perfections of their Christology. Did the thief on the cross first have to subscribe to the Westminster Confession? Did the woman at the well need to recite the Nicene Creed? And was the Ethiopian eunuch recalled to Jerusalem after his baptism by Phillip in order to adequately catechized?
In fact I suspect most us - including myself- are held in God's Gracious hands IN SPITE of our arrogantly assumed "knowledge" of such things. Fudge understands grace, a concept that doctrinal legalists have stripped of its spirit and compassion and morphed into a dry and lifeless dogma.
I don't endorse either the "good works" or "good works" version of legalism. But of the two I'd have to say that in our culture the latter is the more pernicious and dangerous. It appeals to the smug, vainglorious, the Pharisees of our day, and is far removed from the spirit and example of Jesus, the friend of tax collectors, "shady ladies" and illiterate fisherman.
And that, I think, Edward Fudge understands.
Gavin

Wednesday, June 08, 2005

HOW TO SAVE GANDHI


This is an excerpt from the Message Board Jesus Loves Fellowship way back in 2000. I was answering a posters' question about the eternal destiny of Mahatma Gandhi. Here's what I had to say:

Though most evangelical Christians would believe that Gandhi will be eternally seperated from God, I cannot conceive it( a man like Gandhi, if given the proper chance of which he didn't, would have loved to have a relationship with Jesus Christ but "white-is-right" attitudes had given him a bad taste). Though me and Mike Feazell have our theological differences, I can agree that God can save anyone He choose after death. It does say that in Hebrews that after death, then comes the judgement but I don't see anywhere in that passage that God is lame duck in this respect. There are Christians that do believe that Gandhi will be saved, these people are called inclusivist. Their explanation is that because of the cross of Christ, God showed divine favour on Gandhi and Gandhi responded to the favour in best light he could at the time. Ronald Nash, author of Is Jesus the Only Way, stoutly disagrees with this assessment. He falls in the exclusionist camp (in other words Gandhi's in hell, too bad, even if the Christian church was filled with white racist attitudes which was a factor in Gandhi's rejection of Christianity at that time).In which I call an UN-Biblical solution to save Gandhi is that of "religious pluralism", in which all religions lead to God, they are same and have equal weight. John M. quoted the above scriptures in his post refuting this theory. Ronald Nash in the book, Is Jesus the Only Way rightly assess that pluralists eventually deny the essentials of historic Christian faith and give more credence to religions other than Christianity as higher truth. I may be strong when I say this but I don't know anyother way to say this that religious pluralism as presented as is, is a form of heresy on the body of Christ.I guess by now, that many will realize that I believe that inclusivist and exclusivist theories are the ONLY acceptable theories for the orthodox Christian. While I do believe that the inclusivist position is possible (and in a few instances God will actually make it probable!), my heart is with a theological camp within the exclusivist position. I would be classified by Nash as an Exclusivist P.M.E.(post-mortem evangelisation) which means I believe that Jesus is the only way PLUS NOTHING else but God will provide a universal access for all people (at anytime) to accept His Son Jesus as his Saviour. Anyone who thinks this is position is an invention of cultists, do your homework! Martin Luther once believed in post mortem evangelisation. He did not for one instance believe that this was a second chance for non believers. Martin Luther believed that those who had spurned or ignored Christ's grace would NOT be there. I take the same view. Today, British Anglican minister, Michael Green supports this theory and I have quoted him on the subject various times on the board. Surprisingly, in Southern Baptist seminaries (according to Nash), the exclusivist P.M.E. position is gaining ground and has it supporters in America. So I guess there is salvation even for Gandhi after all---and its NOT by the pluralist solution!

Wednesday, June 01, 2005

HERE IS A GREAT PLACE TO FELLOWSHIP ON SUNDAY

IF YOU ARE STILL IN ARMSTRONGISM READ THIS...

Harlan Simantel, a member of the Wordlwide Church of God in the 1970's, now a liberal evangelical, has some pretty no-nonsense, commen sense and every other sense advice for people still in the off-shoots of the Worldwide Church of God. I hope to see in the next few years a massive amount of people taking his advice. It is worth it. It is an article that can set one free from the clutches of a Flurry, Meredith, Pack, Kilough or whoever is making a living off the tithes and offerings of hardworking individuals constantly duped by systematic lies and fantasy concoted by literal con-men. I hope by getting more people to read this article, I have done my part in liberating people in spiritual bondage. Read Harlan and enjoy!http://www.angelfire.com/or2/thelordisnear/spinoffs.html

DR. GARR AND THE JEWISH ROOTS OF CHRISTIANITY


I am not a fan of Church of God, an international Community's leader David Hulme. I do respect that his magazine Vision is a cut above than that "plain fiction" of a magazine the Philadelphia Trumpet (or Strumpet, LOL!!!). I have had an opportunity to meet the Founder and President of the Restoration Foundation, Dr. John D. Garr. He is a cross between Rush Limbaugh (with a greater social conscience than Rush) and WCG Glendora, California Pastor Neil Earle (who was my pastor in Toronto from 1984-92). Dr. Garr's mandate in the Restoration Foundation is to make all Christian denominations that are interested to be educated in the importance of the Hebraic origins of the Christian faith. He is of Jewish background himself and his organization is based in Atlanta, Georgia. He publishes his magazine called Restore http://www.restoremagazine.org/issues.htm, which is a multi-denominational publication and it is unique of it's kind. What does Dr. Garr have to do with Vision magazine? They had an interview with him in the fall 2004 in article questioning "Is Christianity off Base?"http://www.vision.org/jrnl/0410/offbase.pdf Controversial article, yes, but it will make you think.

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