Intelligent Quote of the Day from FYI Again
It all depends on whether your perspective is that the TGCOL (Love God, Love Neighbor) is a synopsis of the Ten. Obviously as you pointed out some of the commandments couldn't have applied before God created other beings.
I would also submit that they were unnecessary prior to Lucifer's rebellion. Apparently evil did not exist previously. Jesus called Satan the father of lies - which I interpret to mean he originated the practice. He also called Satan a "murderer from the beginning", which based on other passages I take to mean from the beginning of his rebellion and not from the beginning of his creation, after all, he was "perfect" in all his ways "until iniquity was found" in him.
I can only assume - the Bible doesn't go there - that the angels were given instructions on conduct right from the start. What precisely that code of conduct might have been there simply isn't any way to know. But since God doesn't change I would assume they contained the same fundamental principles of love towards God and love towards others.
It is fascinating that this whole argument - whether the 10 Commandments are part of the NC - was not really an issue in Christianity at large until the SDA's (and later the WCG) made an issue of the Sabbath.
Prior to that time Christianity was more or less united in a belief that the 10 were the fundamental code of conduct for Christians. The Sabbath was almost universally presumed to be Sunday - in fact it still is in many denominations and in the minds of many believers.
Even now many sincere, devout Christians if asked whether or not they keep the 4th commandment (assuming they even know what it is) would reply "Yes, I go to Church every Sunday".
Why else do you think there has been so much controversy in recent decades over the 10 Commandments being posted in court rooms? They still hold a place of honor in many denominations. Not all of them try to toss them out, or equate them with tassels and mixed fabric garments.
The main proponents of "the 10 Commandments are done away" concept are either former Sabbatarians or individuals and/or denominations who for one reason or another are strongly opposed to the idea of a 7th day Sabbath.
The Sabbath is the one great indigestible lump - the one thing that most people simply cannot or will not accept. And it is only when the Sabbath becomes an issue that the Ten Commandments as a whole become controversial in any way. Absent the Sabbath, the nine other Commandments are nearly universally accepted by Christianity.
All in all, it's just "pick and choose" of a different sort.
---FYI Again critiquing a particular WCG Alumni post making strong assertions that the ten commandments are NOT the eternal ten!
Labels: FYI Again, intelligent quote of the day
Obviously, when the sun and moon are done away, there will not be the kind of Sabbath as mentioned in the Ten Commandments. Besides, if all are made perfect....
I often wonder why it is that people object so much to the Fourth Commandment -- especially vociferous being the ones from the old WCG. Keep and believe it or not. But the Church of God Seventh Day has an approach for Sabbattarians: Keep it as a joy and delight.
The real problem is the modern pharisee: The keeping of the Sabbath became a drudgery of obligation -- an oppressive burden.
Fie on the people who did that! Ruined it for everyone they did!
Not that some of these cults strewn about don't do the same thing to keeping Sunday.
Moderation good.
Excess bad.
Posted by
Douglas Becker |
Tuesday, September 04, 2007
I agree Douglas 100%. Former WCGers and others who devote sooo much time attacking the seventh day Sabbath and people who wish to keep it, I find have jumped one ship of intolerance to another ship of intolerance. I also find why Christianity in general are so mellow towards Sunday Sabbatarians as opposed to seventh day ones is more likely a neurotic desire to be so separate in every way from Judaism. For to celebrate the seventh day Sabbath is just too close to the Jews for some. Christians must need to keep that hard firm line! I think it's time to just live and let live but hey, this is religion. One party needs to control another. That's how the game is played. Sigh.
Posted by
Felix Taylor, Jr. |
Wednesday, September 05, 2007
And make money, Felix, and make money.
Let us not forget our priorities....
Posted by
Douglas Becker |
Wednesday, September 05, 2007
Three of my favorite intelligent men...all in one place.
I personally do not care whether any of you keep any day at all (and based on how you pick and choose the rules for yourselves, you might think me a sinner for such a position).
The suggestion that "The Sabbath is the one great indigetible lump -- the thing that most people simply cannot or will not accept" was an Armstrong tease, FYI. It is the bait on the hook of legalism.
The great indigestible lump is Jesus..."Take, eat, "
You say, "The main proponents of 'the 10 Commandments are done away' concept are either former Sabbatarians or individuals and/or denominations who for one reason or another are strongly opposed to the idea of a 7th day Sabbath."
That would be everybody but sabbatarians, FYI.
And if I do say so myself (as a student of the Armstrong faith) that your rendering is not unlike script right out of the Armstrong play book.
Bait.
I'd ask for your research and numbers (I hear you've done your own).
The fact is that there aren't two groups of "proponents," but one...those who believe they are saved by grace through faith, not by works of the Law.
..and #1 (former sabbatarians) have learned from their own experiences subjecting themselves to the ministry of death what your group #2 knew all along.
And what is that something?
The teachings of the apostle Paul, who called the 10 commandments (written on the stones by the finger of God) the ministry of death. It is the ministry of condemnation, which is obsolete.
By all means, if works of the Law save you, then you must keep them all -- not just the one, or ten.
It does beg the observation that taking the bait (required keeping of the fourth commandment) establishes all ten as the "way" -- and it's only a matter of time before we see the picking and choosing from the 613.
Taste not, handle not...
If Paul is not your authority in these matters, then by all means, consume one another.
The ministry of death (the 10) is not the way, FYI. Remember the man who told Jesus he'd kept the commandments his whole life? He asked what ELSE he must do?
Narrow is the gate.
Jesus is the gate.
Posted by
Unknown |
Saturday, September 29, 2007