Tuesday, September 04, 2007

Intelligent Quote of the Day from FYI Again


It all depends on whether your perspective is that the TGCOL (Love God, Love Neighbor) is a synopsis of the Ten. Obviously as you pointed out some of the commandments couldn't have applied before God created other beings.

I would also submit that they were unnecessary prior to Lucifer's rebellion. Apparently evil did not exist previously. Jesus called Satan the father of lies - which I interpret to mean he originated the practice. He also called Satan a "murderer from the beginning", which based on other passages I take to mean from the beginning of his rebellion and not from the beginning of his creation, after all, he was "perfect" in all his ways "until iniquity was found" in him.

I can only assume - the Bible doesn't go there - that the angels were given instructions on conduct right from the start. What precisely that code of conduct might have been there simply isn't any way to know. But since God doesn't change I would assume they contained the same fundamental principles of love towards God and love towards others.

It is fascinating that this whole argument - whether the 10 Commandments are part of the NC - was not really an issue in Christianity at large until the SDA's (and later the WCG) made an issue of the Sabbath.

Prior to that time Christianity was more or less united in a belief that the 10 were the fundamental code of conduct for Christians. The Sabbath was almost universally presumed to be Sunday - in fact it still is in many denominations and in the minds of many believers.

Even now many sincere, devout Christians if asked whether or not they keep the 4th commandment (assuming they even know what it is) would reply "Yes, I go to Church every Sunday".

Why else do you think there has been so much controversy in recent decades over the 10 Commandments being posted in court rooms? They still hold a place of honor in many denominations. Not all of them try to toss them out, or equate them with tassels and mixed fabric garments.

The main proponents of "the 10 Commandments are done away" concept are either former Sabbatarians or individuals and/or denominations who for one reason or another are strongly opposed to the idea of a 7th day Sabbath.

The Sabbath is the one great indigestible lump - the one thing that most people simply cannot or will not accept. And it is only when the Sabbath becomes an issue that the Ten Commandments as a whole become controversial in any way. Absent the Sabbath, the nine other Commandments are nearly universally accepted by Christianity.

All in all, it's just "pick and choose" of a different sort.


---FYI Again critiquing a particular WCG Alumni post making strong assertions that the ten commandments are NOT the eternal ten!

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 8:25 PM | | Comments

Wednesday, July 04, 2007

Intelligent quote of the day

The responsibility of a parent is first to the child. Not to anything else. Not to church, not to religion, not to money - to the *child*.Anyone who is completely mentally healthy would walk into the church, see immediately that something is not right, and leave. Once they get to the point where they accept ministerial *counseling* (the sermon should be an immediate tipoff that there's a problem), they have already bought into it a little bit.But even if they don't - the minute that they see that what they are doing will harm the child - that should be it. No amount of religious influence, no amount of ministerial influence, no amount of *anything* should supersede the fact that the child will be harmed if a certain course of action is followed. I don't care if someone is yelling in your face saying you will go to hell, a parent should say "them I am going to hell but MY CHILD WILL NOT BE HARMED."In the case that a parent isn't healthy enough to tell the difference, then they have no business having custody of a child in the first place."But I was hoodwinked" is no excuse - *no excuse*. If you have a child it is your responsibility *not* to be hoodwinked. And if you are, it is *your responsibility*, as you are ultimately responsible for that child. Not the church, not the minister, no one but you.
---Russell Miller, participant on J's Shadows of WCG message board and a bloggist in his own right, discussing the issue of the power of the cult vs. the power of the parents.

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 10:13 PM | | Comments

Sunday, June 24, 2007

Intelligent quote of the day


The WCG really botched the changes, in such a way that it leads me to believe that they had absolutely no interest in the welfare of their members. If they had done it right, they would have enlisted the help of outside therapists and had them waiting in the wings for anyone who wanted them, the power structure would have been dissolved, the organization would have been dissolved, the money would be distributed to programs to help the "displaced members". Not only that, but they would have issued a full apology.Instead, they just sprung it on the members and told them "this is how it is, deal with it".While the WCG did the right things for the wrong reason in implementing the changes, they completely botched them.


---Russell Miller on J's blog Shadows of WCG discussing whether one's years in Worldwide was really a waste of time

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 8:46 PM | | Comments

Tuesday, May 01, 2007

Intellligent quote of the day




"God hasn't promised us tomorrow, but he has promised us eternity."

Tony Snow, U.S. White House Press secretary said to his Davidson College alumni this past weekend, while bravely battling his re-occurance of cancer

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 8:19 PM | | Comments

Thursday, April 19, 2007

Intelligent quote of the day


If Jesus Christ came today in human form and preached to the COG's, the results would be no different than they were 2000 years ago. Some few would listen to Him and heed His words. But most would envy His wisdom and power and would resent His indictments of their hypocrisy. They would crucify Him yet again, just as their Pharisee forefathers did.And they would do it for exactly the same reasons: they would see His teaching as a challenge to their authority.


---FYI Again on the WCG Alumni Message board complimenting Byker Bob's thread on the chilling idea of Jesus being an Armstrongite (which again we are glad that he was NEVER one in the first place!)


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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 7:52 AM | | Comments

Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Intelligent quotes of the day: condemnations on XCG's insensitivity on the Virgina Tech tragedy

Editor's note: We at Post WCG Life and Theology share mourning and loss of the over thirty people killed at Virginia Tech campus earlier this week. We also firmly support people (like those on Gary Scott's blog XCG) who have soundly condemned the insensitive and unchristian comments from the XCG splinters who have exploited this tragedy for their own purposes. My message to those who condemned the XCG's cold and heartless statements, do not back down! You got two thumbs---way up!!!



Unfortunately, I must edit Richard Ames’ statement to more accurately reflect the truth.

It should read as follows: “From Brookfield to Kosovo, and from Blacksburg to Baghdad, our world is mired in violence, pain, and suffering. We wish we had the answers, brethren, but events of the recent past prove that we don’t know any more than the people to whom we condescendingly refer as ‘the world.’


At the risk of sounding somewhat twisted, I must also ask, what if the grim reaper, when he was deciding that a bunch of people needed to die at VT, had picked a disgruntled and depressed teenager from Flurry’s or Pack’s congregations to do the deeds, rather than a Korean immigrant? Would it cause any soul searching, and maybe some reforms to get rid of some of the anachronistic, disfunctional teachings of the ACOGs? I had begun to think that Brookfield might be reponsible some of the recent liberalization and reform at LCG, but on the heels of Ames’ quotation, obviously not!



---Byker Bob



Well yes, when families are grieving, it’s meaningless and a waste of time to comfort them and shed tears with them. It’s so much better to tell them about the eagerly-anticipated great tribulation and seven last plagues and second coming of Christ and second resurrection.
It just shows you how out of touch these Armstrongist mouthpieces are with reality, and how hard and stone-cold-dead their hearts are: in times of horror and pain, if you started mouthing words about the great tribulation and whatnot, you can be sure that the mourners will stare at you in utter disbelief, wondering just what it was that caused you to go off your nut. It’s your words that they’d regard as meaningless, not the caring words of comfort they receive.
Even more, right after a mentally ill person has murdered your loved ones, the last thing you want is to be accosted by someone intent on sharing his waaaaay-out-of-the-mainstream religious beliefs with you. You’d surely wonder if all the crazies were coming out of the woodwork just to make your life a living hell.
Only someone whose natural human feelings were severely atrophied could make such a comment as meaningless words of “healing”.
Another observation: contrary to the Flurryites, good child rearing is important, but it’s no sure protection against mental illness, which often has nothing to do with how a child is raised.
Well, these reactions to the massacre are just appalling for their opportunism and cruel, uncharitable, uncaring utter cluelessness.


---Jared Olar



Ruling over sinful thoughts is tough work.
The usual mind-control diatribe: if bad things happen, it’s all your fault because you don’t pray enough, don’t fast enough, don’t tithe enough, don’t study enough, and don’t work hard enough to banish “sinful thoughts”.... It is impossible to be in control of your thoughts if you have a chemical imbalance or are otherwise mentally afflicted.
The sick thinking of just one individual can bring tragedy to a multitude of people. Therefore, we each have an enormous responsibility to rule over and subdue our own sinful thoughts.
I love how UCG tries to scare us by implying we are all capable of slipping up (by not “subduing” sinful thoughts) and will thereby cause us to wreak the same kind of havoc as a mentally deranged individual with a clear history of troubles.

---John


...The problem is that they think that prayer will solve the problem. Some of the xcg’s probably think the man was demon possessed- and not mentally ill.
Their advice to someone that has asked for healing and hasn’t received it is to re-examine oneself and continue to pray about it. It doesn’t occur to them that the answer was no and that the individual should seek out competent healthcare.
With regard to the individual at Virginia Tech, it looks like the system failed to help him. The warning signs were all there, he was referred to counseling, and even the police were involved with him at one point for stalking. At one of those points he should have been sent to the loony bin for treatment. Now there are 30+ young lives snuffed out and a Holocaust survivor as well. The families and friends of those people need consolation, not false propoganda about The World Tomorrow, or to hear about how observing the sabbath, tithing, and prayer will spare them from a similar fate in the Great Tribulation.


---Charlie Kieran

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 9:00 PM | | Comments

Saturday, April 07, 2007

Intelligent quote of the day



We (really including Christianity as a whole) have lost far too much sight of Jesus. Instead we worry far too much about keeping the "bad, evil people away" to keep ourselves "unspotted" somehow---yet, Jesus would condemn us as soundly as he condemned the Pharisees for mouths like the rottenness of graves and being full of decay.My hope is that there actually IS an "emerging" church, that sees the problems that modernity brought onto Christianity. It is time for reformation throughout the body of Christ...


---Big Red 76 discussing the desperate need for the Christian church for drastic reformation in light of Glenn Mattson's comments on the excesses of the XCG splinters on the Worldwide Church of God Alumni Board

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 9:39 PM | | Comments

Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Intelligent Quote of the Day: Celebrating Easter


I realize you and I hold different views on the observance of Easter and Christmas, and while I appreciate and respect why observing either would be repugnant and unthinkable to you, observing the day is no longer problematic to me.


Of course observing ANY day "unto the Lord" is a matter of personal conscience, and so it isn't my objective to persuade you that you are doing something wrong in terms of which days you observe (or do not observe). I believe that the matter of conscience includes more than my own view any particular activity -- part of what we do as brothers and sisters in Christ has to do with how it affects or impacts others, including unbelievers.


I Cor. 10: 23, speaks of that principle in a discussion of the conscience issues relating to eating with unbelievers. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.
25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it."
27If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake -- 29the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for?
31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.


Paul's focus was to facilitate in the saving of souls, and he realized that while these matters were meaningless to him personally (had no power over him because of Christ Jesus), others might stumble over them, even Paul's Jewish brothers who would look upon Paul's worship of Jesus as idolatry. Paul had freedoms based on his conscience (that all things are God's creation, and that he could freely eat or not eat, again, according to the situation presented to him, and each situation would be judged not according to HIS personal conscience but the conscience of the person he was dealing with).
I'd like to say that were I to participate in an Easter sunrise service today (and I believe I have only done this once in my life when I was a child), I would be worshipping Jesus Christ. For me, it is a day of commemoration that I have chosen to participate in for that commemorative purpose. Before I came into contact with Herbert Armstrong's ministry, my mind was not under a cloud of doubt when observing Easter. After Herbert Armstrong introduced that the day of commemoration of Jesus' resurrection was "tainted by idolatry" then my mind doubted that the commemoration was "clean."
It would have seared my conscience to have observed Easter with the Armstrong mindset, which was born of the cog7 mindset. In preferring Paul's advice to Herbert's advice I see that all of the creation is God's -- he said all of his creation was "good." And surely there is no scripture in the holy bible that says Jesus should not be worshipped on a certain day (or to the point here, on Easter Sunday specifically at sunrise). And while I am fully aware of the Ishtar, I am reminded that ALL THINGS (and that includes Ishtar) are under Jesus' feet. Whatever link Easter has with Ishtar is destroyed in the presence of the only man worthy of worship -- Jesus.
Ishtar is nothing to me. For an idol to mean something to me, I have to believe it has power in my life, and Ishtar has none.


---Janey, a participant of Mark Tabladillo's Jesus Love Fellowship message board explaining to her friend, the reasons why she celebrates Easter in her post-WCG life and theology.

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 8:39 PM | | Comments

Friday, March 02, 2007

Wise words from an Armstrongist Refusnik (FYI Again)!!!

Not all COG's are alike.There's no question that the cult oriented COG's - the HWA era WCG, Gerald Flurry's PCG and David Pack's RCG being the more obvious examples - have (and continue to) cause psychological damage to most if not all of those who support them. It's just a matter of degree - some are more damaged than others. These certainly can and should be held accountable for the inevitable results of their abusive, controlling policies.But not all COG's are like this. Some have largely ejected the cult mentality. Some are in the process of doing so. They all continue to have problems of one sort or another as the legacies of Armstrong's personality cult, abusive government, and speculative prophetic interpretations continue to work their poison.Many of the WCG spin off groups are changing, just as the WCG itself is changing - although not necessarily in the same ways. Case in point: it might surprise you to hear that many stalwart, long time members of groups like UCG and LCG are increasingly accusing those organizations of liberalizing and watering down doctrine. These groups are divided and in turmoil. Older, Armstrongist oriented members are departing in droves to join with the more "fundamentalist" groups like RCG and PCG.And you know what? These older members are right. They *are* "liberalizing" and "watering down" doctrine. They deny it of course - as the Tkach's did. And they continue to maintain strict control, which is a danger in itself even if their motives truly are benign.Then there are the non-Armstrong COG's. What are these? Simply, they are the ones that never were tainted by Armstrong's peculiar brand of COGism. Primarily Church of God Seventh Day (COG7) and its many derivatives. These are the COG's where Armstrong learned basic COG doctrine, which he added to and abused to further his own ambitions and greed. To be sure, some of these groups *have* created a cult mentality - it's a common problem in small Churches of any sort whenever you have naturally controlling and/or ambitious men seeking a following. But for the most part these groups have stayed free of the kind of cultism that Armstrong fostered.People are going to believe what they are going to believe. Armstrong's teachings, his policies, his personality cult, and his prophetic interpretations had a powerful and lasting effect on a lot of people. Armstrong also taught basic COG doctrine which he learned from COG7 - some of which he taught accurately (ie biblically) and effectively.Why do you suppose so many believed Armstrong? Because they *REALLY DID* see in their bibles that much of what he was saying was true. He was very convincing. Of course the best way to teach lies is to liberally mix them with truth.How many of Armstrong's doctrines do you still cling to? Everyone's different of course, but I think even the most die hard anti Armstrongists probably still - whether they are willing to admit it or not - cling to at least some of the doctrines they learned through him and his Church.Of course, those who are firmly committed to Armstrongism have several choices available to them. At present, I'd estimate that David Pack's "Restored" Church of God (RCG) is the closest in terms of pure, undiluted, full strength Armstrongism. Like Armstrong, David Pack claims to be an Apostle. He also lays claim to several "titles" that Armstrong himself once claimed to hold - "Messenger to Israel" and "Watchman" to a specific "era" of "the Church". RCG is a popular destination for the dedicated Armstrongites, and continues to spread the same poison.But there are plenty of alternatives for those who are less than fully committed to Armstrongism, but who still believe many of the doctrines they once learned. These doctrines are not evil simply because Armstrong taught them. For those who believe them, there are Churches were they can be relatively free of the mind controlling cult mentality and abuse. Such people can find others of like mind, with whom they may have profitable fellowship - which some people need very badly.The worst thing someone like this can do is to remain alone with no one to talk to for a long period of time. I think a lot of people make this mistake and it's terribly unhealthy - they'd be better off back in the cult than stewing in their own confusion and uncertainty. That I think is the primary mistake that this man made. He clearly still maintained some - perhaps most - of his former belief system. Yet outside his own family he had nobody to share his faith with. That can be a mighty lonely place to be. I know. I've been there.Of course the reverse can also be true. If someone is staying in a Church they no longer trust or believe in simply because they have friends there, that too is a mistake and is unhealthy. If you can't have some confidence in a Church, it's time to hit the road Jack and don't go back. I know this too. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt, ain't going back.Broadly speaking, I define Armstrongism as:1) the personality cult (HWA = Elijah, God's Apostle, etc),2) the abusive, controlling "Government of God", and3) the teaching of highly speculative prophetic interpretation as gospel truth.I make a distinction between Armstrongism and basic COG doctrine - most of which pre-dated Armstrong and which he himself learned from COG7. He of course tried to cover that up by calling it "Dead Sardis" and painting a falsified picture of it in his autobiography, but the fact remains that the core of his doctrine was not unique to him. He learned it from an existing group. That group still exists. And it never had anything to do with Armstrongism, in spite of the many similarities in teaching (doctrine) that can still be found.Armstrongism itself is dying. It's being kept on life support by a small handful of nutburgers, but there's no question that its core constituency is aging and rapidly dying off. There are very few *new* converts.Everyone's journey is different - and God works differently with different people. As Stingerski often says, your mileage may vary. To those who give up most if not all vestiges of COG doctrine, they have plenty of choices - many have become atheists, many have returned to more mainstream denominations and all points in between. There are plenty of potential destinations.But for those (like me) who still believe *some* of the COG doctrines - and there are a lot of us - there are COG groups which can serve the purpose of providing comfort and fellowship. And some of them don't require you to be a "regular" member - you can visit when you feel a need to.I am not currently a "regular" of *ANY* particular COG group. I have been in this state for quite some time now and I'm perfectly happy to be so. I have friends in a number of different groups - as well as a good many friends who are not and never have been part of any COG. When I feel a need for some COG style fellowship, I'm glad I have that alternative available.Admittedly the COG's are difficult waters to navigate. There are narrows and icebergs, storms and pirates aplenty to watch out for. But for those who need them, I'm glad that some are still around. Perhaps if this man who murdered his family had had someone with similar beliefs to talk to, he wouldn't have done what he did.
---FYI Again in WCG Alumni message board making a bold declaration that there is an emerging difference between Armstrongism and the Churches of God that is becoming a reality and needs to be paid serious attention to!

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 9:15 PM | | Comments

Thursday, January 25, 2007

Another Intelligent Quote of the Day from Neotherm



End time prophecy is a marketing vehicle for the COGs. It is a means of bringing more anxiety into the lives of people who are already anxiety inundated. The hope is that they will be frightened into joining a COG and becoming a part of the tithe base. Evangelicals are little better. (I am not an evangelical.) They look into such books as Revelation to find support for the agenda of the Republican Party. It is almost as if morality for them is not defined by the Bible but by Republican dogma.They harp on God's promise to Abraham to support the Iraq War. They cite that "those who bless you will be blessed and those who curse you will be cursed." At the same time they ignore the unrelenting warfare between the Arabs and the descendants of Israel. They conceal that fact that Biblical prophecy describes the Middle East as a seething cauldron right up to Armageddon. John Hagee, whom I have only watched a little on television, strongly supports the President's War in Iraq based on basis of the Abrahamic "blessing scripture" but says nothing about the rest. So the evangelicals proof-text support for the War in Iraq. If we wanted to bless Israel, it would make sense for us to use our 150,000 troops to secure Israel's borders. Instead, we are trying to turn Iraq into a democratic republic. History demonstrates from the Crusasdes onward, that Iraq will never become the 51st State of the Union.I was amazed to hear a kid from Wheaton College a few weeks back say on ABC Evening News that God's creation is something that we should respect and take care of. He knew this was an unpopular statement with evangelicals. Evangelicals believe in environmental policies that favor corporations because that is the Republican agenda. Somehow evangelicals can become almost witheringly angry over abortion (I am firmly against abortion), but have no problem with sending young men and women to their deaths in the Iraq War. Both involve expending human life for no reasonable purpose. Evangelicals adopt this paradoxical position not because it is Biblical but because it is a part of the Republican agenda. Throughout, I should have said neo-conservative Republicans because there are some centrist Replublicans that I respect.This is one reason why I am a mainstream Christian rather than an evangelical.



---More of Neotherm's criticisms (and rightly so) of evangelical Christians and their approach to prophecy and their faith in public policy isssues on Gavin Rumney's Ambassador Watch blog

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 9:09 PM | | Comments

Wednesday, January 17, 2007

Intelligent quote of the day


Religion alone isn't the problem


It's when religion and *power* mix that it becomes truly toxic. Note that I said power and not politics. Any time religion seeks to control people, whether it's for political purposes or simply to gain power and wealth (as HWA did) it becomes corrupted and disaster will surely follow.Religion of and by itself can be benign. But once it starts trying to force itself on others - for whatever reason - it becomes pure poison. Islam was *FOUNDED* on the principle of forced conversion, and as such it has been poison from the very start.Unfortunately, the nations of the west - because of their tradition of religious tolerance - have no defense against the kind of agitation the Muslims in their midst are doing. In order to survive, they will ultimately have no choice but to curtail the religious freedoms their societies have become accustomed to. In the final analysis, Islam will have to be outlawed in these countries because it will never change and it will never go quietly. A new "crusade" is brewing and there's not much anyone can do to stop it. Our societies have only 2 choices: stop Islam by any means necessary, or submit to forced conversion.Islam is not a religion. It is a political ideology, like Communism or Fascism.


---FYI of Worldwide Church of God Alumni message board discussing his views on twisted religion and the West's limited choices in fighting Islamofacism

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Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 6:57 PM | | Comments

Friday, December 08, 2006

Extremely HIGHLY intelligent quotes of the day



I wish I could say I was surprised.The whole letter shows that Ponder doesn't even really know the Grace's at all. Has he even gone by for a visit? It seems doubtful.But given what a jerk he is, it's for the best.Let's just hope the Graces wake up and get out -- especially now that they're raising their grandchildren. "Our grandchildren have suffered horrific abuse and are still healing and making adjustments," he writes, and my thought was, "Well, don't give them more that they'll have to get over by introducing them to the nightmare that is Armstrongism..."




Points to Ponder:Rather than advice the victim, how about we advise the perpetrator.
1. Mr. Ponder...You are not a servant of any Jesus I know of. He that is "greatest" among you, let him be your servant." You're disqualified. It was just your job to send the material, not decide if they deserved it.
2. I know why you turned them down at a deeper level. Ministers can't stand it when there are fewer people at church. Numbers make the job feel real and declining attendance feels bad. You want the grandkids to come to church to up the numbers.
3. Your mapquest quest is insulting and controliing. It shows you didn't believe the couple from the start and EVEN if they were off by some alotted time of your reckoning, IT IS THEIR BUSINESS IF IT SEEMS TOO FAR FOR THEM TO GO...NOT YOURS.
4. Whether YOU see or don't see symptoms of cancer in people is again, NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. People give reasons for how they feel because they feel the person who judges the worth of the reasons may not get it. How long ago they had their challenge with cancer is none of your business. If they have low energy, which is common, they have low energy. IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS TO JUDGE HOW WELL THEY FEEL. I suspect LCG services are not inpiring enough anyway and suck what little energy one has out of them. Frankly, the last place I would want to overcome the challenge of cancer would be in a COG. The negative, end of the world, drama ridden environment would suck the energy out a healthy person. I suspect they subconsciously don't wish to be at church and are hoping one or more of their reasons will shut you up.
5. Your anal- ysis of traffic lights and such is just that..anal.
6. "Easily" staying over for a mere $55 as you can is relative to ones income and circumstances. As a minister, you know as well as I do, a former minister, you get reimbursed for staying over in most cases or can if you insist. I suspect your gas is reimbursed to some extent or that you get mileage for your pastoral efforts. If not, I am sure it comes off your income taxes.
7. There are LOTS of better places for kids to be other than hearing about the end of the age and imminent of Jesus all the time. I'd go for the zoo.
8. "by the way, you should attend the feast with those girls also"You "should" mind your own business and not feel free to tell people what they should or should not do. This is control as now your members have to decide against or for what they "should" do according to you. I suspect not to do this would be going against what you have told them they "should" do. Don't "should" on people Mr. Ponder.
9. If these people did not attend combined services "a few years ago" that may relate to how they felt with the cancer of a "few years ago." Maybe the sermons were so predictable they didn't want to hear it. Maybe sermons on Trumpets aren't encouraging. I always had a basic rule that encouragement, given by an encourager should actually be encouraging to the one needing to be encouraged..know what I'm sayin' Vern?
10. Karma Mr. Ponder...Karma...Or as a Westerner might say, "what goes around, comes around." Mr. Grace's answers to your letter were much more gracious than you deserved. Join the human race Mr. Ponder. We are all one and the same and gentleness, compassion, understanding and taking people at their word goes a lot further than authority, so called. Give up on passing judgement on the decisions others feel they have to make. You called Doug a liar over and over and he should be disturbed at the tone. I have met dozens of ministers like this and it's a major reason why COG's don't prosper as a place where one feels safe, appreciated, respected or able to speak freely without judgement or unintended consequences.If you wish to discuss it face to face and get some mentoring in how to encourage and care for people, I'm just up the road. I did a mapquest, and you are not all that far from me.Ponder that.....




---XCG's Gary Scott and former WCG pastor Dennis Diehl rightfully, dutifully and appropriately slamming a fanatical, heartless jerk for an LCG minister and his stupid decision on a LCG couple.
  • Here's the website of this medievel troll's decision and the couple's response. The hell be with Carl Ponder, always.

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    Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 9:48 PM | | Comments

    Saturday, December 02, 2006

    Intelligent quotes of the day from Byker Bob!

    Comment #1

    One thing that we don't seem to see is groups of people who really feel as if they've been screwed over by COG-7 taking to the internet to express their displeasure.From this, I believe I would conclude that they probably did not have any really detestable authoritarian leaders, running roughshod over all the brethren of COG-7. They were probably allowed to use their minds and pursue more abundant lives, without all of the threats and intimidation which were routine at WCG.Since the doctrines are pretty much the same, it would seem that HWA's basic personality is what caused all of the hatred and bitterness we sometimes associate with former members of WCG who have not as yet become very advanced in their recoveries.I really have never run across any angry ex-members of the SDA churches, either, which suggests to me that there probably weren't Hitlerian ministers in the top spots of Adventism.It would seem apparent that HWA personally was the spawn for all of the bitterness and hatred.

    Comment #2

    Well, that is a thought provoking question, in view of the news we occasionally see on TV or read in our newspapers. I would say this: The leadership of all the Armstrongist churches is rotten, corrupt, megalomaniacal, and evil to the core. But, the other Christian churches seem to have little patches of evil here and there, and some bad history (like the Catholics), but most of them are not what I call "institutionally rotten" Now, when I tar and feather the ACOG leaders, please understand that I believe that the vast majority of the lay members are well-intentioned, and attempting to do what they believe to be right. They've unfortunately been caught up in a horrible scam, and don't realize it.Churches having their act together? I'm not like some of the atheists (apparently like Elton John) that believe that religion is the mother of all evil, wars, oppression, etc. I've seen religion accomplish some good in people's lives that really needed some structure. I've heard a lot of good about the Universalist Unitarian Church, and also some great things about the emergent Christian movement that Big Red described to us all. I think that if you walk into any Christian church, you are going to find some sincere people, and some insincere people. Sometimes, the insincere become sincere with time. The primary way in which I judge or discern the nature of a church is whether it accomplishes predominantly good in people's lives, or more than 50% bad or evil.My grandmothers both read their Bibles in the privacy of their homes, but never went to church to my knowledge. They were known to all as good people, and taught me a number of wonderful values which I came to re-embrace after leaving WCG.

    -Thoughts from good ol' Byker Bob from the WCG Alumni Message Board

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    Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 10:48 PM | | Comments

    Tuesday, November 28, 2006

    Intelligent quote of the day


    I've never understood the significance of Halloween and Christmas being "pagan". I grew up in the WCG on Saturday and a different protestant church on Sunday. (Two parents, different beliefs.) I heard all the rhetoric about paganism but all I knew was that Halloween allowed me to dress funny, act goofy, and score some candy. Christmas often meant visits with grandparents and presents and decorating a Christmas tree (although not in my parents' house). I can see no way that God can be unhappy with the spirit of those holidays as we celebrated them.The COG argument to that, I think, is that my thoughts are not God's thoughts. Fair enough. Perhaps he has some (to me, not understandable) reason why I should not participate in those holidays. Does he hold my lack of understanding against me? It's interesting to me that COGers (at least in the past) portray God so much more viciously then he is portrayed in the Bible itself. Where did this come from? Read the Old Testament. For every plague and "kill every one of them" order there are pages of exhortation to justice and mercy, and enormous amounts of grace. As I've said in the past, I really don't think the God portrayed in COG tradition and theology matches the God in the Bible. It's a corrupted picture of God.


    "Alan" discussing the XCG's anti-Christmas attitude an philosphy on Gavin Rumney's Ambassador Watch

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    Posted by Felix Taylor, Jr. at 9:36 AM | | Comments

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