Post-WCG Life and Theology ARCHIVES

Armstrongist Refusniks" - I like it. It's an accurate description. Actually, I suspect there are more of us than Gavin thinks. And our numbers are growing as more and more people observe the unchristian behavior of various "leaders".

A lot of people will stay in an abusive group not because they truly support it or believe it is "God's One True Church", but because their friends are there. I know that's a poor reason, but it happens. I did it myself for a while.

Another factor is that a lot of people who might prefer an independent group have little or no knowledge of them and wouldn't know where to go to find out. It's not like there's a clearinghouse of information on the subject. There are of course some web resources, but unless you already know about them you're up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

Related to my earlier comment, I note that you have a pretty good set of links on your blog to resources that independent "Armstrongist Refusniks" might make use of.

However I've found that this blog only works properly using Microsoft's Internet Explorer (IE). When I view it using Mozilla Firefox (my preferred browser), the links/recent posts section appears as an unreadable jumbled mess. It looks fine in Internet Explorer though. I haven't tried it with any other browser.

I'm not sure what might be causing it. I don't think there's anything unusual about my Firefox configuration.

I have noticed in the past that Firefox seems to handle some HTML tags a little differently than IE does.

Yeah, I always have to cross over to IE to read your blog too. In Firefox it's practically impossible. Maybe something to do with the template coding.

I hope FYI is right about there being a lot more independent thinkers out there than I realise. If you want to post me a list of benign COG groups - the non-hierarchical ones - I'll consider putting it online.

Hi Gavin,

I'm hesitant to put together such a list, not because it isn't possible but because as with so many other things in life the usefulness of such a list would depend on a lot of different factors. Any church - not just the COG's - has problems. If you look closely enough at any of them you will find some good and some bad. And none of them - no not one - is completely of one mind and one accord. In fact, if you find one that *IS* of one mind and one accord, congratulations - you've just found a mind controlled cult! David Pack's RCG for example truly is of one mind and one accord. They all speak *exactly* the same thing.

Given that, specific recommendations would be difficult. If I recommended COG7 for example, that might be a safe choice overall. But not all COG7 congregations are the same. Some are healthier than others, and nearly all of them would be considered "too Protestant" by most people with a WCG background. As Felix has mentioned on his blog, the atmosphere there is quite different and could be considered shocking to someone steeped in an Armstrong oriented church.

The same could be said - although perhaps to a lesser degree - of some of the WCG spin off groups. Take CGI for example. They long ago dropped the hierarchical one man rule concept - even to the point they were willing and able to give GTA a well deserved heave ho. But even so, there are going to be some locales - depending on who the minister is and the makeup of the local congregation - which won't be as healthy as others. And once again, someone with an Armstrongist background might find their take on certain doctrines and prophecies to be shocking.

Even among the more classic Armstrongist groups - for example UCG and LCG - there are some locales where a free thinker can thrive. Again, it all depends on who the local minister is and the makeup of the local congregation. Both groups still maintain a "minister is always right" policy, and some local congregations are as rigid (and exclusive) as any HWA era WCG congregation. But some areas are more liberal than others and most of the larger congregations will allow visitors to come - or go - without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

There are of course a number of small, independent groups. I have first hand knowledge of only a few of these. Many of them have little or no web presence. And while some of these can be healthy places, they can also be among the most poisonous. All it takes is one or more ambitious "leaders" to turn a relatively healthy, benign group into a mini gulag and the change can happen fairly quickly. Some of these men make Flurry and Pack look almost sane.

Bottom line: I'm OK with advising *individuals* one on one (as I am able) based on their specific needs, beliefs, and overall mindset as well as their locale. But I wouldn't feel comfortable giving blanket "one size fits all" advice about which COG's are good, bad, or somewhere in between. Where the COG's are concerned, mileage may vary and there is simply no substitute for doing some research in your local area. These are difficult waters to navigate, and anyone who tries to navigate them *WILL* make some wrong turns and must be prepared to beat a hasty retreat if he finds himself swimming with sharks.

I've often written about various COG groups on the Alumni forum - usually in the negative. Sometimes the "one size fits all" model does work. For example, I can say without hesitation that *ANYONE* who isn't a dyed in the wool Armstrongite should avoid gulags like RCG and PCG. Their fruits are obvious and are well known and I've done a fair amount of research into both. I can also state with some confidence that LCG - even though it is liberalizing and has made some remarkable progress - is doomed to implode and fragment into dozens of smaller, competing groups as soon as Rod Meredith either dies or becomes incapacitated. There's just no other way for it to go down. They made their hierarchical bed, and they must sleep in it.

Anyone who wants to know about the COG's - whether they are pro or con - should be educated about them. There's no substitute for rolling up your sleeves and doing your homework. If you're gonna sail these seas, you'd better know where the reefs, lighthouses and currents are. If you want to know what a Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, or a Rod Meredith teaches there's no substitute for going right to the source - read a few booklets, listen to a few sermons, and do so with an open mind *AND* a critical eye.

In this light, sites like your AW blog, xCG, this one, the Alumni and JLF2 forums, can help people to stay informed about these groups. I may not always agree with you Gavin, but I do believe you provide a valuable service to the COG community and commend you for all your hard work over the years. It has not been in vain.