Post-WCG Life and Theology ARCHIVES

Ya know, J, last summer I was listening to the Michael Medved program. On this particular occasion, he was observing how every couple of decades, any one of several influential professors on some of the larger ivy league campuses will attempt to rehabilitate the concept of communism. And, the first thing this person will state is that communism really is not a bad way of life if we could only get the right people running it. They'll
blame tyrannical dictators for the failure of the philosophy itself.

Now, Medved wondered, how many times do we have to try communism and have it fail before we realize that the very philosophy corrupts leaders and makes them into the oppressive types of tyrants that are universally associated with communism?

That for me was a huge lightbulb moment! I knew immediately that this had a direct parallel to the typical Armstrongite doctrines, and the ACOGs! How many times do we have to experiment with the so-called 18 restored truths before we realize that that very system will always produce oppressive leaders, and very toxic cultic behavior????? It's a cause and effect relationship, and though Armstrongites consider themselves to be Christians, the ACOG system always produces very unChristian behavior! I suppose you could privately practice Armstrongism in your home, and not do anyone any harm, but the minute you turn it into an organized group, voila! Hello cultism!

Far be it from me to try to dictate peoples' choices in their religious practices, but I personally feel that anyone who goes from ACOG to ACOG, attempting to find the "good" one is just kidding themselves.

I couldn't resist to bring another youtube.com clip from Mark! This one is Are There Prophets and Apostles tody? A relevant message to the XCG's where ol' Gerry of Philadelphia is considered "That Prophet!" and David Pack is considered "God's Apostle". Mark has some splendid advice: run away from these people as far as you can! Sorry that the picture on the video is somewhat blurred.

I have found another interesting article posted on the website "Delivered" which discusses and critiques the excesses in charismatic and Pentecostal denominations. This one particular article called "Life in a Hebrew Pentecostal Holiness Church". You maybe familiar with it's alternative name "The House of God"---which late great soul singer Marvin Gaye came from. The author of the article has her name withheld and is an African American woman who had her beginnings in studying the historic WCG and CGI literature and eventually ended up with the Hebrew Pentecostals. Those who were in the historic WCG and/or splinters will realize that some of the things in that church sound waaay to all too familiar. Thankfully, the author has found peace of mind from the legalism and authoritarianism produced in The House of God and now attends a Lutheran church with her husband. Blessings to both.

The article is here at http://www.ex-upci.net/id78.html

Hi,
You wrote: "I don't follow happenings in WCG much these days."
Not a lot IS happening.
It has lost the zeal of Armstrong's even Tkach Senior's time. That is understandable. The older WCG had BIG plans, huge vision and the excitement of what the future held when the campus sold.
The newer WCG under Dr. Tkach is very small as witnessed by the tiny HQ staff. HQ seems to be more administration and education in the theology of Tkach and company's choice. No big plans and little success. The one shining area is in Africa but as someone who knows church professions in mission ministry that is not uncommon at all. Africa is a MAJOR area for evangelicals who are finding more success than even the Mormons. The Pentecostals are converting them by the thousands.
The campus sold...so what. Tkach has squirreled the profits away and no one ever speaks of it again.
HQ seems to just make up the rules (for others to follow) and provide resources for self running congregations.
You also wrote: "Seems to me they made whatever point they were going to make years ago. Why bother to continue? Aside from providing a golden parachute for Tkach and a few assorted klingons I fail to see what purpose it serves. How long can they continue to run on empty?"
There are many factors to the WCG dying off.
1. There is a dwindling number of young people. Tkach has bemoaned that fact himself at a regional conference when he discussed his aging denomination.
2. Many congregations are so small they have little to offer the children they have. Other churchs offer vibrant programs. I have seen parents leave the WCG just for that practical purpose.
3. Small congregations lack funds and still have to give their 15-20% to HQ.
4. WCG HQ has SERIOUS accountability issues. The pyramid did NOT get turned upside down. The only major change was with the lack of income from losses HQ farmed a lot of the work out to local congregations. A smart move. Let the locals have control of the small stuff. HQ picks their pastor for them to choose from and what policies and rules they follow.
5. Sound doctrine is NOT protected. Judging by the speakers Tkach has selected for regional conferences the WCG may head into new territory. Tkach has more power in this respect than the Pope in Rome. Tkach is the church's single point of failure as he appoints the advisors and review committees.
6. Changes from the dictatorial government style of Herbert Armstrong will be risky. Tkach is not all that popular and there can be and probably is much ill will for past offenses both towards him and the general ministry.
7. Divisive policies like women in the ministry have been settled but the problem comes when it effects local areas. As a WCG friend said it's okay as long as it does not effect us.
8. Tired of the same old sales pitch. The Worldwide News was the most irrationally sunny publication I knew. All sunshine and flowers while the church crumbled. After a while people just tire of the promises and waiting for the church to grow.
and etc.
It's a steep uphill battle for the corporate WCG.
There are a lot of decent God fearing people in the Worldwide Church of God. I personally think they are wasting money and time trying to repair something so broken.
If the main goal is the Gospel then there are better ways for the local congregations to spread it.
A clean break would be free of the history of Herbert Armstrong and free of the consequences of Dr. Tkach's rule.
Dr. Tkach alienated most of the membership. They leave most often with a very sad story and a warning.
It is a warnng my friends and I have mentioned in our churches simply by way of telling the story of our Christian walk.

I've heard some fairly educated individuals make a case that Jesus had committed suicide. His purpose in coming to earth has been reported as being death for the sins of mankind. He deliberately went to the place where he knew he was going to be crucified. Could not that be considered suicide?

No, I don't believe one could consider Christ death as a suicide.Our service men, police officers and other protectors of society put themselves in harm's way every day.Would educated people think that is suicide?

As far as this minister goes, in my book, his greater crime was leading an ACOG and ruining peoples' lives. Hopefully his death sent his followers a message that since the philosophy didn't work for their minister, it might be defective when applied to their own lives. After all, aren't true ministers supposed to have a double portion of the Holy Spirit?

WCG Alumni message board poster Byker Bob's thoughts on the Dugan tragedy

Thank you WCG Alumni message board poster Pasedena Guy10 and his linked to U.S. television station WBKO based in Kentucky http://www.wbko.com/news/headlines/7301711.html . Plus here's a recent story from websit Exit and Support site about one's escape from the Sabbatarian cult at http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/dee/stories/sabb.htm .

The title above strikes strong emotions. I meant what I have said and stand by it. Neotherm has eloquently stated on Gavin's Ambassador Watch blog there was a spirit of murder in the historic WCG where "Armstrongites have advocated the exermination of Native Americans, Maoris and other indigenous peoples for years." but as Neotherm eloquently stated,"they would probably not lift a finger to accomplish it..." Am I still exaggerating. Well the late, great Armstrongist Refusenik Jesse Ancona had to say this about her stay in the historic WCG, "Totalitarian states [which WCG was truly one] have always intimidated and dehumanized its populations with ugliness -- itself a form of violence, and very effective at demeaning its intended victims. Members of the Worldwide Church of God thus learn to hate their own senses, and become oblivious to their own experience, as they are already oblivious to their own disappointment, and the pain and despair of their families." I can roughly remember at age 3 1/2 back in 1973 at Mt.Poccono, PA my mom was going to take me to the washroom for a spanking but I think I lucked out because there was some other woman lambasting her son like crazy. Some of you who grew up in Worldwide remember women's washrooms to spank children for even the smallest infraction. Even in the 2000's in the Living Church of God, we all heard about Terry Ratzman and what he did with his anger. We heard recently about the Lessard family. Now another tragedy which ended violently has happened with the suicide of an XCG cult leader after a standoff with police. Those who will stubbornly object to the title above may say, "Well the WCG was against war, we never picked up arms and fought! How could we be violent?"If I can quote CNN's Larry King and say, "That's one of the dumbest things I have ever heard!"You don't need arms to be violent. The examples that I have mentioned here should tell you something about the behaviour of Armstrongites. They are a very, very angry people and would like to harm you if they perceive you are in their way. Even the thought of harm is violence enough. So those who think that Armstrongism is a religion of peace, you know that denial is a river in Egypt.

Read 'em and weep about this latest tragedy at:

I admit I've never been really comfortable with the book of Job. Perhaps I've misunderstood it. But I never felt at ease with the idea that a just and loving God would beat the living daylights out of a man, torture him for days, perhaps even weeks, take away everything he had, and even go so far as to kill his family... all just to make a point about vanity.
Was there no other way that point could have been made? Was it really necessary to go that far? And really, why would God even bother to communicate with Satan in the first place? What have they got to say to one another? What good can possibly come from such correspondence?
I've read the book of Job from start to finish on many occasions. I've heard bible studies on it, read articles about it, etc. And even when I still felt close to God, I always found this book disturbing.
What is God going to say to Job's children in the resurrection? "Oh, I had you killed so I could make a point to your dad. Sorry about that. No hard feelings?"
To be very frank, I'm not entirely sure I want to know a God who does such things to those who serve Him. To His own children no less. I wouldn't treat a rabid dog the way God treats those He claims to love.
If this was meant to be comforting or encouraging, I'm afraid it missed the mark rather badly. Sorry. Better luck next time.

"God hasn't promised us tomorrow, but he has promised us eternity."